I agree entirely with Tony Galetti - One blanket signage law cannot address all aspects of property. Commercial/ Industrial property issues are completely different to those of residential property. It would be appropriate for SAPOA to address this matter on behalf of all commercial property stakeholders.

Correct - the problem is even grater when it comes to vacnant Land, Buldings is still OK.

The problem is SAPOA has been doing nothing for agents or the industry for a while now,
look at the issues behing RPL and the likes for the Commercial Section....
We do not belong to these anymore, you pay dearly and get nothing in return.

I agree with the comments on the mail from Galetti.
I think the indescriminate placement of signs (up to 10 differant signs) of huge proportions on ONE property has caused this issue to surface.

New guidelines should be drawn up that allow realistic signage on large properties/developments.

Ground floor retail signage, for example needs to be more carefully researched. Guidelines needed.
Possibly our local SAPOA branch should get involved & make recommendations to CCC.

Are there certain areas where the law is more enforced than others. We have not encountered problems in the northern subarbs

sent via email:

Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:03:11 +0200

To: Lydon McGrane

Subject: By Law 80 - Outdoor Signage In Cape Town

I agree whole-heartedly and have addressed the same to Ms Debbie Evans at council, in a letter recently. The by-law is once again a perfect example of a law being promulgated without consulting the role players in the industry thereby making ‘criminals’ of an average, tax paying work force.

The permitted size of signs are beyond ridiculous. Further to this the 3 month period allowed to erect a sign is equally ridiculous considering that in some instances developments take years to market and the average industrial property probably takes closer to 8 months or a year to sell.

This is a matter of sincere concern for us. Thank you for your email. Keep us posted.

Regards,

Tommy Ljubicic

They do not seem to be applying the law in all areas. I have had some 2.5m x 2.5m signs up in Epping, Montague Gardens and Beaconvale for months now and have not had a single letter? I do agree some control is needed but it must be practical and the law fairly applied.

We have all experienced selective targeting by the council at one time or another and yes their signage law has not been thought through to provide for the various challenges we face with C&I properties. However, what has made things worse for the rest, is the fact that certain companies feel that they need to erect as many large boards on the pavements as possible and in some cases erect 2, 3 or 4 large corex boards on the same property. These actions make the area look like a dogs breakfast and further make negotiations with the council somewhat difficult.

Well, I am glad I'm not the only one being sent letters.

Here's a little comic relief.

on 29 April 2011 I received a letter dated 8 March 2011 at my home (about 10km from my office) that I am in contravention of the said act and that our sign should be removed within 21 days from receipt of the letter.

I (the law abiding citizen that I am) had the 5 year old sign removed 11 days later (we are now well into May 2011). I must note that the erf number they used belonged to a site 3 erven down from where the actual sign was erected. They even got the street name wrong. This proved very handy in court.

All was sorted out and complied with, and so we continued through May and June. Or so we thought.

On 28 June 2011 my wife calls me (very upset I may add) with the news that a City Law Enforcement Official is outside our house insisting to deliver a Summons to appear in court. She then kindly sent him to my office.

The summons was indeed delivered to our office (and signed for on advice from the lawyers).

In the two weeks (read while Legal Fees accruing), no attempt to contact the responsible official or the prosecutor proved to be successful. The City claimed it was out of their hands and the prosecutor didn't receive the docket until the morning of the hearing.

Needless to say, the case was withdrawn by the prosecutor based on notarial errors on the summons.

This whole exercise resulted in 5 unproductive work hours of a taxpayer, a rather big account from the lawyers and an honest property broker needing to take time off to explain to head office why he is being summonsed at home. All because someone didn't follow up.

To conclude - we as brokers provide services that initiate business and stimulate our economy resulting in increased income from business tax, VAT, rates and employees tax. The City is effectively cutting at the sheep supplying the wool. In my economy, we consider that dumb.

Yes, it is a problem and they need to get their house in order and focus on the purpose of the law rather than to indulge in the shallowness of the text. And please, don't get me started on our beloved regulating board with their attempts to kill the industry.

And yes, I am still happy to be a broker.

I agree with the comments of all you.
We recently got a letter requesting we remove a signage board up in an industrial area & a month later for one of our boards up in the CBD. The board we removed from the Centre of Cape Town was already almost invisible & it was difficult to see our contact numbers, if we go any smaller, then we may as well not put up a board!
The cost implications for us are of a major concern, we are all still trying to recover from the recession & now this. We further recently got notice that our company logo that has been on the roof of a building we own & work from, a logo that has been there for more than 11 years, is now there illegally & we must now apply for permission & pay to have our company logo on our own building. We need our logo on the building as our offices are almost impossible to find due to us not being on the ground floor.
We are members of SAPOA & yes indeed what are they doing?

M

I agree fully with the above comments, the property market has been lumped together and little thought seems to be given to the differences between residential and commercial/industrial property.This is clearly comming through in the new educational requirements ( RPL ) and signage regulations, which seem to be enforced more vigorously in some areas and not at all in others.
More consultation with the relevant role players is the way to go!

We have unfortunately brought this upon ourselves.In the UK only one company may erect a boards on a property because it becomes an eyesore seeing all these many boards on 1 site especially in a tight residential or commercial area.
Also those agents who put more than 1 board up at a single site should be brought to book
I say 1 board per company per property. No size restriction

Generally the strategy is to hit soft targets. My tenants in Montague Gardens, with their own signage erected on poles well within the boundary of the property were asked to remove their boards. It is legislation gone haywire. I believe that there should be control, but whithin reason. Perhaps time limits for broker signs on a site i.e 3 months or something to that effect.

As mentioned this a fight that should be taken up by SAPOA or the Estate Agents Board. Both a waste of time.

I generally agree with the comments above but I do think that we need to police ourselves as well. In the last few years we have gone overboard with the manner in which we have erected both steel boards and corex boards. Maybe we should come up with our own set of guidelines?

In the interim, we must try and get Council to re-look at its guidelines. Don't expect SAPOA to do much for us because they don't really represent the interests of C&I brokers.

Perhaps someone could direct SAPOA to this conversation thread for a comment. I would very much like to hear their take on things

Ok, I seem to come in late and generally speaking ,not much I can add to the sentiments echoed and agreed upon between us, colleagues and competitors alike.

It seems often a free for all and I agree that a lot has to do with the specific nature of our industry; only a/the recession has brought "colleagues together" and I agree with "beg to differ" above; we need to have guidelines regarding erecting boards,time span and some form of manifesto needs to be drafted and agreed upon by ALL of us, not expecting any assistance from SAPOA or the like.
So,where do we go from here? who is doing what?
I suggest a meeting of minds.

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